Curse

Winterclaw · Oct 25, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Five wins per point is the same as RA and the old TA. I don't see the problem.

In general, I'd reduce pvp titles to 3 ranks per format. 1,000 points for first rank, 5k for second, 25k for 3rd, or something like that. Just enough to show if you have experience with it.

Captain Bulldozer · Oct 25, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I do think that in a certain sense, the average PvE player has little incentive to play PvP areas. The rewards for High end PvP are quite nice, but an average PvE player has little to no hope of winning high end arenas. The codex arena allows for a place which is a little more attractive to people who are not hard core PvPers, since there are bigger limitations and an ever changing meta. Still, what rewards are there for PvE players? There is balthazar faction but most PvE players have little use for it short of buying z-keys. There are various fame emotes, but at this point they're far from rare, and again of limited use from a PvE perspective. The other reward is in the title track which is also of limited use, except for the players going for GWAMM or just titles in general. Since many people (especially PvP players) complain about PvP being dead, at least in part due to a smaller player base, I would think it would be a good idea to offer incentive more more people to finally make the cross over to PvP. If making title points easier to obtain does this, then I don't see a problem with it. But I doubt this would really make more PvE players more interested, as its really only a title.

Taddayo Kun · Oct 25, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I think taking it's point system from an already broken title (gladiator) is a bad move. My reasoning is that although pvp titles are widely considered a way to ascertain a player's skill, titles still need to be maxable, at least eventually.

I'm sure many people would disagree with this suggestion on the basis that pvp titles show who is the better player. To that I would disagree simply because the only way titles could indicate skill would be if losing detracted points as well as gaining points for winning.

ele pl · Oct 25, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I was thinking the same. Glad title style just won't work in CA. You create a build, try with it, you get 4 wins and no reward, because someone had moar luck/play longer this day or whatever. I suggest one point per win + additional bonuses at 5/10/15/20. Because now, CA is as noob un-friendly as the old TA. If youre skillful, and you have core group to play with, you get title easy. If you are newcomer, that don't know wtf and stuff, without any form of "saw-able" achievment, you will just go away and screw that.

Gift3d · Oct 25, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

listen to arkantos.

pve titles are essentially meaningless because they're meant to be maxed and anyone with enough time can easily max them -- that's pve.

pvp titles, more or less, have a meaning to them. they are meant to show experience in that format of pvp. if pvp titles were as ridiculously easy to max as pve titles, everyone would be walking around with them maxed and what kind of experience would that show? not much.

they're made nearly impossible to max for a good reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

If you are newcomer, that don't know wtf and stuff, without any form of "saw-able" achievment, you will just go away and screw that.

and this is the main reason i love codex. because random pvers, who don't know how to pvp, can't load up the latest gimmick build from pvxwiki to farm title points. the players with playing skill and originality (somewhat) are the ones that you'll see win. sure it might drive some players away, but those players will most likely go back to running bsurge eles in RA, and as far as codex goes -- nothing of value was lost.

that's my take on it and that's how i believe it should be.

kupp · Oct 25, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I say /signed because I really do feel the 5 consecutive matches to win are a lot, from my experience matches can be fought for so long becoming an attriction battle, that just isn't worth it. With one team I got a match that took 6 minutes to break even and got a 2nd one with a monk and a protting D/Mo in wich he simply couldn't out-heal the enemy team while our monk was having a relativelly easy time, that one lasted for almost 10 minutes. This kind of pvp format is pretty fun but it's own nature also makes it terribly slow, it's not the same like TA was and RA is to justify the 5 cons. wins for a point, they should have just kept it like HB, one win = one point ajusting the title track accordingly if needed (wich IMO it isn't).

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

I was thinking the same. Glad title style just won't work in CA. You create a build, try with it, you get 4 wins and no reward, because someone had moar luck/play longer this day or whatever. I suggest one point per win + additional bonuses at 5/10/15/20. Because now, CA is as noob un-friendly as the old TA. If youre skillful, and you have core group to play with, you get title easy. If you are newcomer, that don't know wtf and stuff, without any form of "saw-able" achievment, you will just go away and screw that.

CA isn't about making creative builds and try winning with it. If you actually want to win matches, you're going to have to run the build of the day, or else you'll get rolled. It has nothing to do with luck. CA isn't noob unfriendly, it's unfriendly to players who aren't good (same as every other organized PvP format). If you're a newcomer and don't know anything, you're not going to have fun and want to continue playing regardless of how easy the title is to get. If you get a point per win, but can't win, it's not going to change a thing. It's just going to make the title a hell of a lot easier for people who are decent, and newcomers are still going to say screw it.

The way it is, decent people get consecutive wins, and bad people don't. The title is meant to reward decent people, not bad people. Good players are going to do good, bad players aren't. You can't change a title to reward bad players. The problem I see here is that PvE players are expecting CA to be some PvE friendly format with an easily farmable title. It's no different from any other organized PvP format - good players are rewarded, bad players aren't. The closest thing to a PvE friendly CA would be RCA.

The Cake Archer · Oct 25, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

CA isn't about making creative builds and try winning with it. If you actually want to win matches, you're going to have to run the build of the day, or else you'll get rolled. It has nothing to do with luck. CA isn't noob unfriendly, it's unfriendly to players who aren't good (same as every other organized PvP format). If you're a newcomer and don't know anything, you're not going to have fun and want to continue playing regardless of how easy the title is to get. If you get a point per win, but can't win, it's not going to change a thing. It's just going to make the title a hell of a lot easier for people who are decent, and newcomers are still going to say screw it.

which will leave the mid and high range players left, then the mid range will be farmed by the high range, leaving it as dead as TA was.

Glad was the only title where you had to win consecutively, and thats a major reason TA died. Even HB had a bigger (actual non-RRing) playerbase.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cake Archer

which will leave the mid and high range players left, then the mid range will be farmed by the high range, leaving it as dead as TA was.

Glad was the only title where you had to win consecutively, and thats a major reason TA died. Even HB had a bigger (actual non-RRing) playerbase.

HB had a bigger playerbase because forming a group with 3 heroes is much easier than forming a group with 3 players who want to play a format that had the same shit meta forever.

Even if the title was easier to achieve, low and mid range players are going to continue leaving because they're getting rolled by good players. Changing the title isn't going to fix this, the only way it will be fixed is a better match making system. If bad players play against other bad players, they'll have a better chance of winning and getting better. As it is, it's good players rolling bad players. That's what kills formats like this for the low/mid range players.

ccReynolds · Oct 25, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I agree the title track needs to change.

It should be like the old gladiator title track...you only get points for 10 consecutive wins. The title should actually mean something.

Also, you should be required to get 25 wins in a row in RA inorder to qualify for codex. That will get rid of all the scrubs that don't deserve to be here.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 25, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It didn't die because the title took forever to max.

And if this was the reason, wouldn't all PvP formats be dead then?

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

And if this was the reason, wouldn't all PvP formats be dead then?

I was saying that wasn't the reason.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 25, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I was saying that wasn't the reason.

I know, and I said what I did to reinforce that point vs the others seeming to think it was the reason TA died??

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

I know, and I said what I did to reinforce that point vs the others seeming to think it was the reason TA died??

Oh, right, my bad. >.>

828168 · Oct 25, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImDReaperslash

Do you suggest we wait 3 - 4 more years and wait for people to try to get to r12?

Something is broken and obviously needs a change.

It's not broken. The reason for this codex arena is to buy time for anet to finish gw2 and it may possibly take 3-4 years from the way it looks. We all know hero battles was introduced to allow people the feeling of how good heroes are due to Nightfall's release. But this codex is to eliminate the need for anet to waste additional time on maintenance. It has nothing to do with skills. Sometimes PVP are so overrated that these players get the wrong arrogant feeling.

stanzhao · Oct 25, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

HB had a bigger playerbase because forming a group with 3 heroes is much easier than forming a group with 3 players who want to play a format that had the same shit meta forever.

Even if the title was easier to achieve, low and mid range players are going to continue leaving because they're getting rolled by good players. Changing the title isn't going to fix this, the only way it will be fixed is a better match making system. If bad players play against other bad players, they'll have a better chance of winning and getting better. As it is, it's good players rolling bad players. That's what kills formats like this for the low/mid range players.

but isnt that exactly the point? your basically trying to get the attention of the average GW player, because they are the masses. because if your saying you need to get good or get out, i can guarantee %90 of players will get out.

one of the problems with TA is that you had to form the group. now if your a pve'r you wont play it, because you have to take the time and effort to form a group, and if you dont know anyone who is up for TA, you go to RA. which is why RA still has tonnes of players. because you can easily just jump in and go.

the codex arena is basically just sealed deck TA. and i also wonder how the skill rotations will work, (i havent actually bothered looking to see if its random, or a circular set of skills will rotate like the z-quests). anyways, point being, if it just goes into a lazy rotation, builds will be posted for certain days and you will create your own daily meta for codex. so your back in the position of, if you dont run this, you gotta go else where. pushing away the average player who cant run the build properly, or isnt as good as other teams who will just roll others. people will then stop coming to codex.

if the title were to award a point per win, people would be tempted to try and win a few points here and there, or the title wouldnt seem so unattainable. but as it is, you can already see by this thread, the average response is people want it changed. its a sad fact to admit that people are lazy. and dont want to get to 5 wins for a point. your gonna have to change the point system, or make the teams randomized like RA to get your playerbase.

i'm honestly surprised that this wasnt done from the start seeing as RA and HB were the most popular among the average player. a combination of the two with point per win/randomized would have gotten more players.

but... it is only early days, and from what i have played ive found it fun. but, thats my opinion.

Enon · Oct 25, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Op describes it all. Getting steamrolled by a g9 guild is boring and is a big turn off for casual PvP'ers.

/signed

Ninja Ninja · Oct 25, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

CA was destined for failure from the very beginning, live with it.

/unsigned

~ Dan ~ · Oct 25, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

your gonna have to change the point system, or make the teams randomized like RA to get your playerbase.

I don't see why anet doesn't make an RA version of this too, as has been mentioned before. That way everyone's happy.

Bob Slydell · Oct 25, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

I don't see why anet doesn't make an RA version of this too, as has been mentioned before. That way everyone's happy.

I'm all for Random Codex arena.